Raised, Red Bumps??
So I have this new client who is open to changing products. She has always had problem skin but now that she is older she keeps it at bay (sort of) using glycolic and Renova. I don't think her routine is working very well and it seems to be causing these raised, red bumps on her forehead and chin. I attached a photo but I'm not sure it really shows. They almost look like donuts and she said the only thing that ever comes out of them is oil. I got nothing when I did extractions. I think it is a reaction to everything she is using. I want to be able to help her with SS products and with facials but I'm not exactly sure where to start. This is her current routine using SkinCeuticals...
Exfoliating Cleanser- 2x a day
Exfoliating Toner- 2x a day
C E Ferulic Serum- 1x a day
Moisturizer during the day (don't remember which one)
LHA Serum- every other night (this contains glycolic acid) This serums says that it is used to (in conjunction with) prep the skin for clinical procedures and professional treatments but she isn't getting ready for anything.
Renova- she says she uses this when she needs it (and based on where she says she puts it, I think this combo is causing the red bumps)
It's a lot of exfoliation and not a lot of hydration. I want to take her away from these products but I need some advice on how to do it best. And some recommendations for treatment facials. I am definitely not as experienced with this type of stuff but I know that I can help her. And I love that she is open to it! :)
I would really appreciate any help with this. I also use Le Mieux but only retail their serums. I retail all of Skin Script (because I LOVE them!).
Thank you!
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Susan Nathan on
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That much exfoliation (glycolic) needs more nourishment in the form of nutrients. It seems the red bumps are where the glycolic is too aggressive which is not all over her face, just where the spots are. My opinion only.
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Permalink Reply by Sheila Gordon on
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Maybe have her back off to see if it subsides? I would definitely focus on hydration to see if that is what is going on. Maybe coconut enzyme, gogi mask treatments for a while. Maybe some red led with seaweed mask and serums. Its odd that its near her hairline. Makes me wonder if its a folliculitis?
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Permalink Reply by Lisa VanBockern on
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I love challenges like these. I like Susan and Sheila's response below - too much exfoliation and not enough hydration will create inflammation. Here's why:
When we see papules (inflammation, yet nothing to extract) we are seeing "displaced p.acne bacteria". P.acne bacteria needs to exist at the surface of the skin. P.acne bacteria converts triglycerides (the stuff coming from the sebaceous gland) into free fatty acids (FFA), which creates our pH of 4.5-5.5 on the acid mantle. That's how it works in an ideal world. Yet, if we overexfoliate, we strip the surface of the skin of the triglycerides (acid mantle is out of balance). Yikes, now the p.acne bacteria has none of its preferred food source at the surface and then dives deep into the pore to find the triglycerides and converts them into FFA, which creates the inflammation. Its not a clogged follicle, its inflammation in the pore. What's the solution? Reset the acid mantle and put the proper triglycerides at the surface and drive the p.acne bacteria to the surface of the skin where it belongs.
If you ask me, this is a classic example of overexfoliation. I would suggest (1) green tea cleanser, (2) glycolic cleanser used 2-3 times per week, (3) cucumber toner, (4) ageless skin hydrating serum, (5) ageless skin moisturizer, (6) spf. Coconut enzymes on a weekly basis for 2-3 weeks, then move to every 4 weeks.
Let me know how it goes.
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Permalink Reply by Heather Margaret MacDonald on
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Great discussion! I see this sort of thing a lot in boys and young men who use "bear guns for squirrels," in trying to deal with their acne at home. Thanks, Lisa, for giving me a deeper understanding of exactly what is going on. I always tell them they mustn't scrub their faces as if they're scrubbing a dirty sink, but now I feel better equipped to explain to them what is going on.
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Permalink Reply by Devyn M. on
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Thanks Lisa! I knew she was over exfoliating but just wasn't sure how to start treatment. Sometimes I doubt myself when the client is coming from an Esthetician who works in a doctors office and has many, many more years experience than me. I've gotten a lot of clients lately that have been over exfoliating the heck out of their skin based on recs from Dermatologists and other Estheticians. I was starting to feel like maybe I was wrong about glycolic, salicylic, etc. It's good to come on here and know that I'm not crazy. :)
Anyway, thank you for breaking it down and explaining it b/c now it totally makes sense why it looks like has holes in her face. I am assuming that these enzyme treatments can be short ones so I can charge her less, right?
Should I use derma files?
Are any of her products useful at some point (when her skin heals)? The Ferulic Serum? I'm not familiar with it and I'm sure she will ask.
Thanks again, Lisa!!
And thank you to everyone else :)
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Skintherapist, I've got to thank you, too, because you have the courage to ask questions. I've been craving conversation with other serious estheticians, so finding this site has been great. Thanks to everyone for the frank, honest discussion.
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Lisa (or anyone who might know!),
I emailed this client last night telling her exactly what I wanted to do and she seems open to it. We are going to meet on Tuesday or Wednesday. She did say that she broke out pretty badly from her facial but thinks that her new shampoo was the main culprit. (she broke out a lot along the hairline) I didn't do anything in the facial that should have caused a breakout. Do you think it was a combination of the products she uses and the facial? Even though I know I didn't do anything aggressive, could the mixture of products caused it?? I don't know.
I know that sometimes facials can draw out the congestion and she definitely had that but I want to make sure I'm not missing something.
Thanks!
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thats why I said its odd being all near the hairline!! I bet you the shampoo is the definite culprit!!
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Good point, Sheila! Gotta remember to take into account all the home-care products our clients are using.
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I meant the current breakout from the facial. She changed shampoo at the same time. She also has those bumps on her chin. They are only in that one spot on her hairline and it goes more into the forehead and then the chin...and she said she has had them for quite awhile now. That is why I thought it was her products.
And I just remembered that her doctor/Esthetician told her that the only way to get rid of those bumps was to get them lasered. I swear they had her use those products to give her those bumps so she would have to spend thousands of dollars! :)
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omg that is just wrong! poor lady. One thing that Laura Cooksey has brought up is tiny red bumps that extract clear is probably folliculitis and would clear up with mandelic serum. Who knows, just a suggestion if laying off the exfoliation doesn't help.
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Permalink Reply by Cindy Greenwood on
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Just a thought -
I get raised bumps from using retinols...so perhaps the Renova is the culprit.
It can cause other problems too...inflammation and sensitivities to name a couple.
See if she is open to discontinuing that immediately.
I am betting if she ditches that the bumps will be gone in a week.
BTW - I would add the Green Tea/Vit C serum with the Ageless Hydrating serum - who doesn't need Vit C? :)
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