Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jo Ann Fenstermacher on August 19, 2013 at 8:23am

Morning Marty!

Morning Andrea!

Great points! I earned my CIDESCO because I wanted it. I also used it as a tool to pull me out of my comfort zone. It was hard. But for me, it was personal.

Now, has it helped me with my employment in the US? No. It breaks my heart when people look @ CIDESCO & think Sisco or Sysco Foods. I work as an educator & I feel like I am beating my head against the wall. I would love to see the US unite in an esthetics certification program. If 30 countries and come together for one certification, why not 50 states (in one country)!

So Andrea, if you are not feeling CIDESCO, I would really look into getting NCEA Certified. Susan is an amazing woman. She is working hard not only to raise the standards, of the industry, but also force states to have some kind of consistency from state to state. http://www.ncea.tv/ncea-history

Keep us posted!

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Permalink Reply by Andrea Sowter on August 19, 2013 at 3:26pm

Hi Jo Ann!

I am absolutely planning on going for my NCEA.  If for no other reason than to support what Susan is doing. 

Thanks for all your help with this thread! 

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Permalink Reply by felicia medlock blair on August 19, 2013 at 10:21am

You know, all this tlk about fluffy facials is a little sad. It sounds very disparaging. I have great results using organic products and massage. I have and still use peels but they are not for everyone, and not everyone wants them. I think it is better to eliminate toxins from your body, and skin care products can be very toxic. I have 20 years experience and have worked in a physician' office, and was an educator for a clinical skin care company. After all this, I like the holistic approach to skin care. So each to his or her own right? But I would never criticize another for using whatever methods and products, or tools they choose.

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Permalink Reply by Andrea Sowter on August 19, 2013 at 3:31pm

Hi Felicia, 

I haven't noticed any talk on this tread dissing "fluffy" facials. Perhaps you meant your response for a different thread? I agree that acids are not for everyone, and that many skin care products indeed have harmful and toxic ingredients.

This thread is a discussion on the merits of earning CIDESCO certification. Not bashing natural and holistic skin care at all.  

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Permalink Reply by Jo Ann Fenstermacher on August 19, 2013 at 5:05pm

Hello Felicia! You are so right. With proper skin care you have to detox. That is why I love seeing more skin care professionals work with Acupuncturists in wellness centers. There is no magic potion. Having a wholistic approach assist the client with a long term lifestyle changes. I applaud you for keeping your standards high & following your beliefs! 

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Permalink Reply by Andrea Sowter on August 19, 2013 at 3:23pm

Hi Marty! 

Interesting to see this thread brought back up after so much time has passed. Ultimately, I decided not to pursue CIDESCO and instead to focus my efforts on continuing my education in areas that interest me and are relevant to my practice. I am intending to get NCEA certified, however. 

I am quite comfortable with my level of skill, and am confidant in both my ability and relationship with clients, HOWEVER, I believe strongly in constant growth and improvement. We work in an industry that changes so constantly, that I think those of us who make every effort to continue our education and keep up with the "new" in our industry (and be able to differentiate from the fads and hype) will be the most successful and have the most benefit to our clients. That is why I was considering CIDESCO...but upon further investigation I discovered that it was not going to be increasing my knowledge base in a way that was really that beneficial to my practice.  I think I am on the right track with seeking out education on topics that interest me and are valuable to my clientele. 

The thing that frustrates me the most about education in our industry is how hard it is to find product neutral advanced training. It is very frustrating. 

Thank you for your input! 

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Permalink Reply by Nicole Martin on November 1, 2015 at 8:56pm

Thank you Marty - I have been debating on doing the CIDESCO training but was unsure if it was really necessary or if I should just take educational classes that helped me get out of my education rut. 

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Permalink Reply by Marty Glenn on August 19, 2013 at 4:07pm

Andrea,

I have to comment on this - you said:

"We work in an industry that changes so constantly, that I think those of us who make every effort to continue our education and keep up with the "new" in our industry (and be able to differentiate from the fads and hype) will be the most successful and have the most benefit to our clients."

From where I sit this caught me by surprise and very interesting. With our industry changing so quickly and this product and that product how come we have not seen the massive acceleration in skin health. Skin cancer is higher then it was back then and our plastic surgeons are making more then ever and our schools are turning out more and more would be skin care professionals who by my standards are way under educated and more importantly there are millions of skin care brands half of which are sharing the same liquid made by our ever expanding private label market.

Someone once asked me about all the marketing that is involved and the hype which surrounds the skin care industry and a persons ability to make money.  I basically responded with: "If I cannot do it this way then I will get out and do something else."

Everything I do and I mean almost 99.9999% is based on what is still the foundation of each and every skin care line which is roughly 15 - 20+ years of research and development.  The tried and true.

From 2000 to today is where all the fad and hype is.  Not all but most of it. from 1993 - 1999 (80's and early 90's is where the serious work was done) there about 50 or so lines that built the skin care industry as we know it and trust me they know who they are. Everything else past early 2000's through today is the rest trying to be different and create the new.  To make money. To compete.

This has impacted our industry the most and I see it when I talk with newbies in school or 1 -2 years post graduation. They are beyond confused...

For further study look to our education system (Top 25 University) for derm study and peer review articles written from and for the medical profession and the Fad and Hype may take on a different meaning and you might enjoy what these studies have to say.  You sound passionate and think you would find it great reading.

The NCEA sounds like a great place to be and over the last few months I have been thinking about getting more involved in it so I am glad to read what you have said as I know you have done your homework.

Lastly, you are 100% right with this comment:  "The thing that frustrates me the most about education in our industry is how hard it is to find product neutral advanced training. It is very frustrating. "

And that is exactly why, when I educate, say for 2 hours on the skin my line is talked about for the first 10 - 15 minutes. Then it is never heard about again unless an active ingredient is brought up for a specific skin condition. You are right on with that comment. I am not sure why that is, but maybe its just what everything else comes down to in life...money. :)

Marty

SkinCareScience.com

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Permalink Reply by Andrea Sowter on August 19, 2013 at 5:05pm

Hello again.

This is an interesting conversation. Granted, I was licensed in 2002, so am fairly new to the industry compared to many others....and by the time I came to the scene, the "foundation" was well laid as it came to hydroxy acids, retinoids, antioxidants, and all of the other "tried and true". But indeed, if the state of skin health has not increased since that time, and most skin care lines are based on the above mentioned foundations (with a new fad ingredient thrown in here and there)....why are we not seeing an improvement in skin health in general? 

 

I stand up and take notice of new things for multiple reasons...one of course being that I always am open to learning about something new that will help my clients, or harm them, of course....and also because inevitably they will come to me asking about whatever ingredient "X" they have heard about is...and I feel the need to be able to share what I know with them. 

 

Of course, I say all of this but am often times in the dark as far as getting unbiased information to form my opinions. All the information on stem cells and growth factors are coming from companies that make product with those ingredients. The man (Dr. Johnson, of Osmosis) who wrote an entire book (which, if true would make a lot of us question everything we ever learned) challenging the way we have been treating the skin for the past two decades, is alas, selling a product line. If I want medical esthetics training, I can only get it locally through two different companies that sell medical esthetics equipment.

Back when I worked at a large day spa we carried Skin Ceuticals, MD Formulations and Dermalogica. We would get advanced training from all of the lines, often times with conflicting information. Skin Ceuticals tells us for example that L-ascorbic acid is the only form of vitamin C effective in the skin as an antioxidant. Dermalogica uses magnesium ascorbate but they claim it is effective as an antioxidant. When I questioned the spa owner about all of this, her response was something akin to how my father responded to my questioning the existence of Santa Clause as a child "If you believe in it....it's real". (!!)

I am not a scientist or chemist. The science and chemistry I "know" was taught to me by people trying to sell me things. What are those of us who want to really make a real difference and not just repeat catch phrases from a product manufacture in the hopes of landing a huge retail sale do? 

Sometimes it makes me so mad that I want to just throw in the towel and do nothing but waxing! At least then I know what I'm doing is straight forward...but then there's the talk of the trauma caused by waxing causing collagen breakdown and PIH around the follicles of higher fitzpatricks...UGH.  

 

I suppose that was a bit of a rant! Sorry- Marty, I hope you realize that I did not mean any of that as a challenge to your response. You obviously have a better understanding of ingredients and product formulation than I do, and I am guessing a great deal more experience in the industry as well. This topic just really gets me wound up! :) 

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Permalink Reply by Jo Ann Fenstermacher on August 19, 2013 at 5:25pm

I understand where you are coming from. It is VERY hard to find education that is NOT product loyal. That is why I went to California for my CIDESCO. Everything was ingredient base and it was refreshing. I am in Florida & I am looking into starting some clinics really soon to help expand the knowledge of those who want to make changes. As an educator, I am faced with this dilemma every time I step into the classroom. We only use 1 brand. Sometimes I go crazy. But, I love what I do and I put my best foot forward to help guide the students to the proper resources. 

UCLA has some adult learning extension classes on Cosmetic Chemistry. I heard that they are amazing. You might have to take this route in order to get the education you want.

It does my heart good to hear someone who is so passionate about the industry! So many people just throw in the towel. You are fighting. I hope you can inspire more people to stand up! I do all the time & it gets me in trouble. I had to leave a job once it got so bad. But, I stuck to my truth. And you know what? I still have not stopped. Please don't!

With power in numbers, we can make changes.

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Permalink Reply by felicia medlock blair on August 20, 2013 at 6:55am

Hi Joann, let me know about these clinics, I would love to come and work with you. Are you interested in learning cosmetic formulation?

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Permalink Reply by Andrea Sowter on August 20, 2013 at 10:31am

Thanks for the kind words, Jo Ann. 

The Cosmetic Chemistry classes sound amazing! I will have to check that out. Wonder if they are online? I'm in NC 

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