Hey CIDESCO diplmats! Questions :)
I have been licensed for just under 11 years and have a private practice. I've been considering the idea of CIDESCO certification. The information out there is kind of limited, and I really want to get an honest opinion, so I thought I'd ask here...
I know CIDESCO certification will give you the edge in the job market, and if you are looking to work overseas it is almost a must-have, but...for someone who is self employed, is it worth it?
I guess my main concern is that the $$$ is really just for a title. I know the full CIDESCO schooling systems for starting out are of very high caliber, but for those of us who have been licensed for years, we just take a week long class and the exam, right? Is what you learn in the week long class really that exceptional? Also, am I correct in thinking that they included massage/nails training even though by state board regulations Estheticians are not able to perform these services?
I'm not looking for a title to throw around, but I am an information and education junkie and want to have the most tools possible to succeed in my business and provide exceptional service to my clients.
I'd love to hear some thoughts/experiences on this! Thanks!
Tags: CIDESCO
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Marty Glenn on
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:)) Say whatever you want. I NEVER take it personal or anything like that. I am always just voicing my opinion and experience and the way I see the world from a skin care bottle. :))
Marty
SkinCareScience.com
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Permalink Reply by coldsalineplexus on
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I feel like skin health is WAY better... for those individuals who use the tried-and-true ingredients on a consistent basis over years and years. I have been utterly FLOORED recently by meeting two longtime estheticians I look up to in person. These are ladies who have applied consistent, scientifically-backed treatments to their skin for YEARS, and both have changed which product lines they use personally and professionally more than once to stay on top of the best ingredients and formulations. You will hear conflicting info about the best delivery systems, and you will hear conflicting info about the newer ingredients that don't yet have published studies, but you will RARELY hear conflicting info about the "foundation" as you say of healthy skincare. Both of these ladies looked at LEAST 10 years younger (really more like 12 or 14) than the average woman their age. Not to mention one lives in NYC and one lives in LA, so constant pollution, stress, and sunshine notwithstanding. Skincare products are like condoms - they only work if you put them on.
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Just to add - I don't agree with everything she says, and I certainly don't agree with all her product reviews, but Paula Begoun does have a very nice ingredient dictionary and I believe she includes information on published studies that have been done on ingredients. She is respectful of the science surrounding each ingredient, even if I don't agree with her opinions on how finished products should come together.
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Permalink Reply by Andrea Sowter on
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"Skincare products are like condoms - they only work if you put them on."
LOVE this :)
I do feel like the state of skin health is better, but then again, I've only been working on skin since these foundations we're discussing were laid. How many times I have heard someone say "My grandmother had the most gorgeous skin, and she only used cold cream..."
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Andrea
You mentioned: Dr. Johnson, of Osmosis
I first received his info packet a few years back at a Las Vegas show (if my memory is correct) but allow me to look at two items really quick and maybe this will also help you:
1. The Dr. Talks negative against AHA and other Acids (i.e. Inflammation).
See it here: http://www.osmosisskincare.com/Default.aspx
AHA's are the foundation of the skin care industry and no single ingredient has made a larger impact on it then these acids. In fact the two dr.s who held the patents in North America and Australia were awarded over 100Million for patent infringement (Avon I think paid 40Million - dont quote me - google it). And that is exactly why they boomed onto the scene and then went away and were bashed by the industry. Nobody wanted to pay the royalty nor buy there glycolic acid from Dupont (The Chemical Company) who was awarded the pass through license.
2. Liposome Drug Delivery System: This is along the lines of Nano Technology and is not proven. If it were it would be patented by a large pharmaceutical giant and they would be making billions on it. I do not think this method of absorption has passed the 'The Principals of Percutaneous Absorption' test. (Hans SChaefer & Thomas E. Redelmeier)
3. Vasodilation and other skin related foods or penetration or skin building that he talks about is cutting edge but not a single word is proven. Not a single word. The clinical research that he is talking about looks a little like the attached PDF picture. What you are looking at is the data shet from a lab which sells to my lab that I never buy from. Why? Because it is not proven over 15 - 20 years all over the world. Shocked! :)) What you are looking at is 'Top Secret'. :))
The skin just has not changed. Its hasn't. :)
Also on another note...so here it goes!! :)
Dr. Obagi made a line right. Staked his name behind it. Made Millions. Went public and then forgot what a public company does: MAKE MONEY
Then he walks away and starts his own line then talks down the line he spent his entire practice and name building to build up his current line.
All those esty's / dr.s who believed in him and followed him and the dr.s who carry his line now should believe what? He was and is one of the founders of the industry and what? Are we to now believe what he did in the past was his life work or is this new line his life work? Or neither?
There is no excuse...None.
You can read it on his website. To sell his new line he has to bash his old one and blame corporate America for destroying it.
Marty
SkinCareScience.com
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"Liposome Drug Delivery System: This is along the lines of Nano Technology and is not proven. If it were it would be patented by a large pharmaceutical giant and they would be making billions on it."
I can't believe that never occurred to me Marty, if this delivery system is effective pharmaceutical companies would be going nuts on it. Hmm..
I've not worked with Osmosis, but the message- if it were to be true- is rather alarming....that we could be causing a short term positive result only to create long term damage. Come to think of it though, I have two clients who are in their late seventies who both started using retinoids when they first came out, and I see no evidence of excessive damage to their skin. They look fabulous. Of course, there are those who also "over do" and we all know what that thin over processed skin looks like.
I was also surprised to find that Dr. Obagi had so many bad things to say about the skin care line that he spent most of his life standing behind. Disappointing.
I just checked out your website. The classes that you offer look interesting. Do you every teach at the Philly show? That and Miami are the two that I typically can make it to. Would love to come out west sometime, but it's not in the cards right now.
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Andrea
You wrote: "but then there's the talk of the trauma caused by waxing causing collagen breakdown and PIH around the follicles of higher fitzpatricks...UGH. "
Dont worry about the scientific side. Think about this...
A mans face has a beard and those hairs are very course. In fact the hair that is near the pubic area is also very course. The hair on our head is less but can also be course. Each one of these areas has hair that when compare to steel of the same thickness can be said to be the same strength when pulled.
Now...
Think of how deep those hairs go. Dont believe just how deep they go? try this. Go with a pair of tweezers, if you have not seen this, and pull a hair out of your male friends face one day after shaving. You will be amazed at how long it is. By and large this is the same with the hair you are waxing.
Your not waxing the same hair on a womens face so I dont think it is too much concern. As for other areas you are waxing pubic and legs and arms which mature or age a little different then the face and also who cares about wrinkly skin on the arms, right? :)
So yes the facial hair on a man's face is a very strong structure for the underling dermis and the overall support of the skin not to mention shaving is dermalscraping at its best. But to your point the hair of fitz 1 to fitz 6 are, for the most part, the same and the structural support of hair in the skin is also the same. PIH could be different but again I have NEVER read a single word in ANY medical book or study linking the removal of hair and the breakdown of collagen or PIH.
I would think that there would be a huge industry based on it and as of yet there is not. Your point is valid and I will think about it and remember it, but change what I do and believe.... not yet.
Marty
SkinCareScience.com
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Good points on the differences between male facial hair and female- Yes, I'm not about to change what I do either....my waxing clients keep me afloat at the worst of times! But it is concerning that there are those who believe this...and I have had it mentioned to me by clients multiple times "Oh, my old esthetician would tweeze my lip, not wax it because she says waxing causes wrinkles" - I wonder why tweezing would be preferable?
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Andrea
To be honest a lot of what I teach I am repeating here. There are times when it does not go deep enough on this forum but trust me I am touching on it.
When you go get or should I say pay for professional education say from PCA (I respect the line and what they stand for) you hear 60% about their line and some top level words and mostly scientific about the skin and the AMAZING new products and ingredients and what they do.
But what if you never heard about the line (not more then 15 minutes) during the education time and the rest was hands on interactive and not a person 'Talking at You' but really making sure that you understand exactly what the skin is doing and discussing it. I have an actual demonstration where I crack open an egg. You would be shocked at how close this action resembles a skin cell look and life action as it goes from the basal layer to the SC.
Take psoriasis for example. Did you know that in skin with this disorder the Spinosum layer of the skin and the Granular layer are not the correct thickness. The Spinosum layer is thicker and the Granular Layer is thinner then it should be. This creates cells that do not differentiate correctly and still contain their nucleus and lipids inside once they reach the SC. The speed which a cell divides and travels to the SC must be done in a specific way and over a specific time period. If not...Watch out.
Its a lot more complicated then what I have said here but the point is, if you knew this on a different level and saw enough pictures of it. You would know that you can only do so much and to not spend so much time on it or help your clients understand it better.
Another example: When a newly graduated skin care professional comes to me for basic chemical peel education they do about 100 peels. They do an eye flush. They get Glycolic acid (very little) in their own eyes and get an eye flush. The list goes on and on. I can only say, I feel sorry for the model because it is not relaxing at all. But what an experience the skin care pro gets.
I am sure you have read this from me before: Touch as much skin as you can and across the whole Fitz scale. You have to sometimes work for free to get this experience. Word of mouth will do the rest.
Marty
SkinCareScience.com
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Permalink Reply by felicia medlock blair on
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Why do you feel you have to actually introduce glycolic acid ( very little , not withstanding) into someone's eyeball. Are we children, slap us on the hand.
There is no error involved, unless you are an extremely sloppy individual.
Esthetician are not stupid, glycolic peels are not rocket science.
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Felicia
Good question.
If you are performing a peel as a newbie and you are using a fan brush and decide to dip again after you do the forehead and by accident you pick up too much and go to the bridge of the nose first there is a chance it could run down the side of the nose into the corner of the eye.
If you have never had GA in the eye, then you will not know what your client is feeling, know they will be ok, understand what needs to be done, be able to with confidence calm your client down, and everything in between.
Confidence comes from being prepared for everything.
And the exact procedure is done with Q-Tip. Very subtle but it brings home a very loud point and the experience is never forgotten nor is the experience or confidence that comes from successfully performing an Eye flush. There is a very specific way to do it while on the bed and in a way that is not alarming and scary.
With that being said, most skin care pros do want to further their career into all aspects of chemical peels and topical products and the eyes are right there. There is always a chance. Always, no matter how careful you are.
The use of glycolic peels, yes are not rocket science, but the mechanics of using a fan brush vs a cotton round or swab is a learned process and does take practice. When your using low levels of anything the training always seems over the top and unnecessary. Then suddenly you advance and you realize why you practiced so much or studied so hard.
Marty
SkinCareSceince.com
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I did not know that about psoriasis. Is the incorrect thickness of the spinosum and granular only in the area where they have flares? Not the entirety of the skin, correct?
The glycolic in the eye reminds me of law enforcement officers getting pepper sprayed :) I'd be game! It's true that once you have experienced something yourself you typically are calmer when dealing with it. Fortunately, I have never had a problem with getting acid in anyone's eye- I usually use either gauze or a square brush for acid application instead of a fan brush....I find those outer corners are harder to control.
Marty, perhaps you did not see my question above: Do you ever teach any classes at the Philly or Miami show? It would be nice to attend a class that over half of the time was not trying to sell their line.
I haven't spent much time on this forum in ages- The only reason I'm here is because I got a bunch of emails telling me there was activity on this old thread that I started almost a year ago. I typically check in at spabizboard more often.
I do think that ultimately, Jo Ann is right- taking some cosmetic chemistry classes may be the only thing that really satisfies me.
This has been a great conversation- even if we got a little off topic!
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